I was trying to get my head around my electrical system (since I have three outlets that aren’t working). In the process, I made this homemade schematic of my Mini.
I think I’m starting to figure some of this out!
I am going to expand it and add things as I understand them. I had to study a lot to understand this much.
Back on the road Saturday. Yeah!
Take care,
Jennifer
p.s. Will I see any of you at Quartzsite?
35 Comments
Nice Schematic.
What software did you use to create it?
I used the drawing program in Google docs. (I found the different pictures online.)
psssst…. did you mean to leave your name on the picture?
Thats a great way of making it understandable. I think all of the ladies, and all of the men should be required to make this kind of homemade schematic of their rig.
I can’t because I don’t have a rig yet :-}
So, your wall outlets run off shore power/generator only?
Is this usual for an RV?
I ask because I work on an ambulance built out of an E350 van, and we have several 110v outlets in the wall running off the inverter, so I just figured it would be the same in an RV.
None of my plugs work unless I am plugged into shore power or am running my generator. I have a wee inverter that I clamp onto the battery to get a 300 watt plug.
I think a lot of rigs have an installed inverter with some plugs working off the battery, but I don’t. (Wish I did!)
I meant to leave my name on there. Thanks for looking out for me! : )
Jennifer
Three outlets that are not working at all? Could it be they are all off the same circuit breaker? Tripped breaker or bad breaker? An ohm meter would check this but make sure you ARE NOT connected to shore power or have your generator running. Also larger inverters draw more amps even when you are not using the full capacity of the inverter. I have a small inverter like yours that I use and only use the larger inverter if needed. Size DOES NOT Matter
Nice job – a good, graphic explanation for those who don’t “do” schematics.
Looking at the above, a thought comes to mind. Do you have power at the GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) outlet? If not, there’s the culprit. First try resetting it. If that fails, then a new GFCI is needed. Pretty much once they go, they’re gone. However, it is nice to know that with a GFCI, you can return it to the manufacturer with an explanation of the nature of the failure and they will send you a new one (which you then keep in spares for the next failure). Due to product liability issues, each GFCI has an individual serial number and they want as much info as possible on failure rates and causes.
If you have power at that GFCI outlet, make sure there isn’t a GFCI circuit breaker in the AC distribution box that has faulted or tripped. While there, check all of the other breakers for an indication of a fault (breaker in the middle or neutral position). If so, try resetting (turn off and then on for a regular breaker, reset a GFCI breaker by turning off, then on and then holding in the reset button for a moment). It helps if you plug in a noisemaker (radio or tv, blender?) as you are testing out the breakers, so you cn hear if you have re-energized the circuit.
Good luck. Have fun. Try not to zap yourself…
I don’t have power at the GFCI and resetting it did not solve the problem.
I did have a thrown 15 amp breaker, but flipping it back to ON didn’t solve the problem either.
I’ll try what you suggested with all the breakers.
Thanks!
YES! See you in Quartzsite! I’m shooting for the 12th or 13th! Can’t wait!
One day (and it better be soon) I’ll understand schematics! maybe when I find my RV part of the deal will be the seller making a schematic to go with the rig!
Cyndi and Stumpy @ RVly Ever After
Jennifer –
THANK YOU for making this design…this is one area where I just can’t ‘get it’ and this helps tremendously!
Do tell what the culprit it when you get to it though… :0
Kari
Nice drawing of your electrical system, you have gotten a good grasp of how your system works. It is so good, I think even a man can understand it. ;c)
On my Winnebago, the GFI plugs as well as all the other 110V plug are pretty cheap. Instead of using screws to fasten the wires into the plug, they use a clip in type system that actually slices into the wire. Then they continue the wire on to the next 110V plug in series and so on.
I see why they do this, it is cheaper and faster to assemble. Since many brands of RVs use the same parts and construction, could you have a wire that has slipped out of its slice/clip? Something that might have loosened up on your AK trip and finally slipped out? A fast look might be worth doing.
I’m sure you’ll track down the problem, you’re amazing!
Jennifer…..
LOL…..
This is classically fantastic! Great job with your schematic…. You pretty much have most all of it mapped out…. There is already very good advice offered for your problem so I will not add my 2 cents except to say, I agree it sounds like something in your GFCI chain is your culprit. Good luck, and don’t get zapped!
“None of my plugs work unless I am plugged into shore power or am running my generator. I have a wee inverter that I clamp onto the battery to get a 300 watt plug.”
I may be missing something, but the outlets should only work when plugged into shorepower, or when the generator is running. Unless you have an inverter hardwired into your electrical system converting DC to AC and sending it to your electrical AC outlets you will not have AC current unless plugged into AC via shorepower, or running your generator, which generates AC current.
Right – I was replying to Jim’s comment #5 about installed inverters.
My current outlet problem of three being out is when I am plugged into shore power.
You see, I was missing something. So, do you only have one GFI plug in the RV? I noticed you said you reset one and that didn’t solve the problem. Have you checked all the connections at the service panel where the breaker switches are? Or, perhaps a wire has come lose on the GFI outlet itself, which would explain it not working. Typically, a GFI outlet controls more than one outlet, so they may all be linked through the GFI.
I have two GFI plugs – one in the bathroom and one in the galley.
I had a heater plugged into a non-GFI plug below the galley. A tiny nightlight was plugged into the bath GFI and nothing was plugged into the kitchen GFI.
I was out of town for two days for the holiday and when I returned, the galley GFI was out, the bathroom GFI was out, and the non-GFI (presumably on the same circuit?) was out. The heater was plugged in, but not turned on. I was plugged into shore power.
I found a 15 amp breaker was thrown and reset it. (I also tried to reset the two GFI outlets.)
The outlet on the other side of the RV (in the big box that used to be part of my dinette) is working.
I wish I had a real schematic for this Gulf Stream!
Jennifer
Hi Jennifer – thanx for the great schematic. Now, if I can just make myself understand it all.
DH and I will be in Quartzsite until at least the end of March, so come on by when you get to town. Do you plan to dry camp in the BLM LTVA/dispersed camping area or find a space in a park?
We are north of “the intersection” in “The Scenic Road RV Park” on N. Central (aka AZ Hwy 95). A good landmark is the Pit Stop – the most popular propane/water/sanitary dump place in town. We’re right across the hwy in a 16ft Scamp. There are 2 Scamps – ours is the site with the big honking Ford van and the gypsy awning! Safe travels and hope to see you in Q. LdB
That is so cute.
I’m not too proud as to not be able to admit I still don’t get it…electricity that is. For a long time I always thought electricity was smoke that ran through wiring. Every once in a while a wire would spring a leak, the smoke escaped and my car would stop running. Now I know it is a bit more complicated than that.
Very cool and helpful schematic.
As time allows, it may be helpful to add the starting battery and its isolator to the schematic.
For added convenience, consider wiring a 3 way transfer switch before the transfer relay for automatically selecting either the generator, shore power or the inverter.
I don’t know how this would effect the converter /charger. Wouldn’t want that converter/charger on at the same time as inverter.
May need a to replace the transfer relay with a automatic transfer switch.
Of course there are many other ways to this.
http://www.invertersrus.com/pwr3axfer30.html
http://www.gpelectric.com/content/products/ViewProduct/?i=TS-30
Gee, I’m not sure if I should be insulted by the title of your post or not [says the retired FEMALE electrical engineer, grinning]. Just for clarity, are your wall outlets really on the same circuit breaker from the ac breaker box as your GFI outlets? And to add a bit of confusion, do you have a three-way refrigerator? If you do then you may want to add that in with a connection to both the 120 vac and 12 vdc.
Enjoy Quartzite and have a Happy New Year!!!
Note from Jennifer: Properly shamed – I changed the title!
Jennifer,
Here’s a good resource to help you track down where the problem may be. I’ve used it to help me track down problems in the past. I hope it helps you out.
http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/gfis.htm
Steve
I don’t understand how this fixed the problem, but it is fixed!
When I found the three outlets were out, I checked the breakers and found one had tripped. I reset it and they didn’t get power.
I then reset all the GFCIs and still didn’t get power.
So, this morning, I went back to my breaker box and flipped all of them off and then back on.
Then power came back up on my outlets.
I don’t understand. I thought when I flipped the breaker back ON the first time that I was closing an open circuit. How does turning these off and on solve the problem?
Jennifer
Some breakers, after they have broken the circuit, must be pushed further to the “OFF” position to reset before being turned on again. It may be that when you turned all of them off that the blown 15amp breaker finally reset. Electricity is still a big mystery to me, but the things you did to solve the problem are basic “trouble shooting 101″ things….always check the simple things first. More often than not the problem is simple. I tend to “assume” that the worst case scenario has occurred…I guess that’s my nature…haha!
Happy New Year, Jennifer!
Clarke Hockwald said:
“Some breakers, after they have broken the circuit, must be pushed further to the “OFF” position to reset before being turned on again. It may be that when you turned all of them off that the blown 15amp breaker finally reset.”
Clarke is exactly right. I had the same problem as you have described and went through the same angst as yourself. I then did what you have done and what Clarke said and fixed the problem. When the circuit breaker tripped it was in a ‘neutral’ position and needs to be pushed to the “OFF” before turning back “ON”.
I fixed mine by accident but then realized what was going on.
This is SO HELPFUL. I’m totally new to this stuff so I really appreciate your diagram and the discussion. THANK YOU!
Don’t know much about this stuff but when they talk about a “marine battery” where would this fit into the scheme of things. The amazing lady from Texas who built her own van had a big marine battery on board plus a generator but she was a boondocker and said that battery served her well. Don’t mean to complicate things but as long as we are into it, we might as well put it all on the table. Happy New Year All! Watch out for the tornadoes in AK.
Virginia
When I was first contemplating this stuff back in 1998, I found this page very helpful:
http://www.marxrv.com/tech.htm
Especially the two pages on “the 12 volt side of life”. Perhaps you will too.
Inverter installation is simple, as long as you install it as near to your batteries as possible, or if you opt to connect at your converter, as close to that as possible. I would install direct from the batteries, if they are any distance from the converter.
Voltage drops dramatically in 12 V systems with distance. If you are more than 3 or 4 feet from the batteries, you are going to need some really thick wire for the input side. You can run the output AC wires as long as you want, within reason.
There are charts on this. I found them in a book called “RV Electrical Systems” by Bill and Jan Moeller. If you have a specific question about wire size, email me and I’ll look it up.
Bob, who has a 1500 W inverter and couldn’t boondock very well without it. Cost about a hundred bucks.
Bob
Jennifer, I am highly impressed with your diagram. LG
So, does this rig have a house/coach battery, or does everything go off the auto battery?
The battery in this schematic is the house battery, which is a deep cycle (similar to a marine) battery.
Once I *understand* how the isolator works, I am going to update the schematic to show both.
Thanks!
Jennifer
Hi Jennifer – we are headed to Quartzsite next week – would love to get together!
I think your converter would be connected to your breaker box, not directly to the transfer relay. On my RV, the breaker box, fuse pannel, and converter were one unit. I’ve recently upgraded the converter, details in my blog.
My current plans are the bo in Quartzsite starting the 14th or so, I hope to see you there.
Hi Jennifer
I am a retired home builder, grew up wiring houses with my older brother, spent 12 years as Electronic troubleshooter,
Hope your electric problem is fixed by now, but what your wiring diagram should show is 2-3 outlets are connected in series below your ground fault outlet that burned.
(it is also a very quick breaker as well as outlet and will kick off with the smallest electric short in any thing to protect you))
so you will have some dead outlets, your burned outlet feeds other outlets and its job besides kicking instantly if you plug something into it that has a short is to protect you it also kicks if anything with a short is plugged into the 2-3 outlets it feeds.
I bet if you replace the burned ground fault outlet,after checking that the burned wires are ok, will fix your problem (course turn all the breakers or unplug from any electric source and have the generator off, first) and be sure and put the wires back on the new GF outlet just the same as they came off, one wire at a time. your other GF outlet also feeds 2-3 other outlets. They are required within 6′ of sinks or outside by code. Regards Ed