Yesterday I was just sitting around, heard a light pop, then smelled slight burning. I went to my galley and noticed one of my bulbs was out, so assumed that was what I heard and smelled.
This morning, my coffee finishes brewing and I hear a loud pop, rush over to my galley, see smoke coming out of the outlet and then another pop and FIRE is shooting out of my outlet.
It starts burning the wood galley, so I grab my fire extinguisher, pull the pin and squeeze it, nothing comes out.
The fire quickly burns out. I disconnect power.
Now what.
***
- The plug that caught fire is the one the coffee pot was plugged into.
- Nothing else was plugged into any other outlet in my RV except bathroom night light and polarity tester.
- This outlet is on the same series of outlets that ‘mysteriously’ threw the breaker when I was out of town.
- I didn’t have any heat or heaters on.
************
Update:
I’m disconnected from power and pulled the outlet out. This is a huge picture file so if you click on it (a few times) you’ll see in much more detail. I don’t know how to determine how big the wire gauge is.
Don’t worry, I’m not going to try to fix this myself! I am just trying hard to learn what goes wrong so it doesn’t feel so overwhelming….
I’m completely disconnected from all power and will call the RV tech who replaced my transfer relay.
46 Comments
Uh oh. My guess is you have a short with a bare wire. A coffee pot has a fairly large draw. If you had overloaded the circuit, the breaker would have tripped. I suspect the breaker is not healthy at this point – probably happened when it tripped on its own. It is probably behind your wall skin. If the wires weren’t well protected, the shimmying of moving puts the wiring at greater risk of abrading. Don’t use your electrics until you get this fixed.
Glad you are ok.
KIYIYIYI! RV.net for answers? No leaks into that area?
Jen its time to pull that outlet and see whats going on. Turn off all power to the coach, take a screwdriver and remove the screws, pull the outlet out of the wall. Im betting that the back of the outlet will be toast, and the wires melted. This is a sign of too much current draw, loose or weak connection. Cut the outlet out and replace, cut the wires back to expose good wire (not burnt or melted). I suspect that the wire will be 14 guage wire which is good for 15 amps. 12 guage wire will be good for 20 amps. I imagine that what happened was you had a loose connection to begin with, then added the coffee pot which pulled too much current or as much as the wire could handle. Did you ever notice the cord to the coffee pot getting hot? It may be time for a new coffee pot too. Dont freak out over this, you can fix it. Get yourself a good volt/ohm/amp meter and use it. Once you get everything fixed, measure the current draw (amps) with the meter and it will tell you whats going on.
Good luck!
Southernkilowatt aka David Ganous
Actually, I’m siding with Mary more than Dave on this one. Time for some serious resistance tests on this circuit. Do as Dave said, then apply your ohm meter or have an electrician do the testing for you. Before working to put that circuit back in business, let’s make sure you don’t have to run new wire. As a reminder, send the GFCI duplex back to the manufacturer for internal testing. Provide them with a detailed explanation and you just might get a new one back in the mail.
That appears to be 14 guage wire. Replace the outlet, buy a new coffee pot and your back in business. BUT- let the RV tech do it if you dont feel comfortable. @Wil- I see no harm in doing as you suggest with some resistance readings to confirm that the wiring is ok. Much better to be safe than sorry. @ Mary- I doubt very seriously that the wiring in the wall is damaged, the damage is due to improper wire size and too much current draw at the recept, and I’ll add that I DO NOT like stab-lok recepts (the kind where you poke the wire in the back and a spring loaded clip holds it in place) and I much prefer the recepts with SCREWS to terminate the wire to. With that said, I think your problem was three fold, stab-lok recepts, too much current draw, and 14 guage wire.
I will make a post on RV.net about Stab-lok recepts and let you read for yourself what people think of them.
I think you are on the right track Jen. Good luck!
Dave
Don’t forget to replace the fire extinguisher also.
I have an extra tea pot I would trade for the coffee grinder you gave me! Low tech but safe and dependable. Hope to see ya soon down the road somewhere.
Rach
Do you have a current meter. You really need to figure out your load. You are putting too much load on those little 15 amp breakers. Also you shoud check your other outlets for loose wires and heat damage.
You are more than capable of fixing this problem. One step at a time.
dennis
Nothing useful to add, just wanted to say I’m rootin’ for ya.
I’m with David, but in addition to making sure you have good wire you may have to cut back the insulation on it too. At lot of times it will get all crispy crittered in a situation like that.
Be careful, but don’t be afraid to test it out.
Let us know what it turns out to be if you don’t mind.
I had that same thing happen in my house last year. Smelled burning. Assumed a bad light bulb. Next day, I saw sparks when I plugged in a lamp.
I used a mini fridge on that outlet. The circuit for that room had been tripped many times. I guess one too many.
We just replaced the insides with new non-melted stuff and all has been good since.
Looks like wires that worked loose. You need to replace the outlet and fire extiguisher, and double-check the wires and outlet box to see if they were damged in the fire. 14 guage wire is fine for 20 amps for short runs, the house code just assumes it will be more than 20 feet long and requires 12 guage wire.
Glad you are safe. I know you will get to the root of the problem. I am checking our fire extinguisher as soon as I am done with this post!!!!
Good luck.
Nothing to add about your electrical problem it is good to hear that the fire just went out.
As for the fire extinguisher… What most do not realize about a dry chemical fire extinguisher is that as you drive down the road the “powder” is actually packing down with every bump and unless you pull that extinguisher out of its bracket a couple times a year and shake it up until you hear the powder moving freely it will pack down to a solid chunk of powder and not work when needed.
Also if your extinguisher does not have a pressure gauge their will be a button to press in to check the pressure. Push it in and it comes back out, you are good to go. Push it in and is stays in, time to buy a new extinguisher with a pressure gauge.
OK, one comment about the electrical. I see in the picture the wire uses the push in contact method and not using the screw method on the outlet. I would recommend only using the screws for a more secure connection.
Code allows you to use the push in method for 14ga wire but for 12ga wire which must be used in kitchens and must use the screw method, in fact the push method is only large enough for 12ga wire.
It is also interesting that this rule does not apply to RV’s as you can see 14ga wire is allowed in the kitchen area.
Question? Do you use that outlet for an electric heater at times?
Like Rae, I have nothing useful to add. By now you know how I am with electricity. I boil water on my stove for coffee (no, not instant) or tea. I’ve used those plug-in outlets for…let me think…can’t recall for any reason.
Thanks for all the info. I didn’t know anything about the fire extinguisher, so that helpful.
The heater was plugged into the third outlet on this daisy chain. (I never used the heater and coffee pot at the same time.) I pulled that third outlet out to look at it. It’s not melted, but I will probably upgrade it when I do the others.
I *may* try to do this repair myself, and then have someone check my work before I use it.
For now, I’ll be making coffee as suggested on the stove (with a French press). I’ll also go back to my furnace heater with propane use….
I just wanted to say how glad I am that this all worked out ok. You were in the rig, you caught it. Fire is such a danger in an RV.
Looking forward to you posting the fix.
Kate
http://cholulared.blogspot.com
What Ron said.
You said that receptacle is the third in the series, then all 3 are wired from the breaker box on the same 12-ga wire.
“Normal” receptacles, 14-ga wire, and voila –coffee.
Just noticed a typo…. oops
I wrote:
“… in fact the push method is only large enough for 12ga wire.” it should read… for 14ga wire.
Hi Jennifer,
Aren’t you back at your hubby’s place again? I could’ve sworn you had an electrical issue on your last visit there. I’m wondering if the problem your RV is suffering from may be from too much juice coming from hubby’s house?
After things are repaired maybe adding a surge protector might be in order.
Steve
You know, I am starting to wonder. All electrical problems have occured here. My ac capacitor burned out, my transfer relay failed after being plugged in here, my breaker threw here, and then the fire.
Would a polarity tester plugged in in my RV tell me if my source power had reversed polarity? I bought an ammeter and a Kill a Watt. I have a multimeter. How would I test this?
Do your self a favor gal and when your electrician is there have her replace all your outlets so that the wire is connected to the outlet with a screw, this will make for a better connection and you can get a better nights sleep.
I think the polarity is ok otherwise your tester in the RV would’ve indicated otherwise. Try the tester on the house socket you’re pulling power from to confirm though. Whether it’s that or not, a decent surge protector will help (or alleviate) this issue altogether. They have 30 amp RV versions which cost under $100, or home versions for $25 if you decide to use it only at hubby’s house. Either way it’s better than adding an electrical charge to your morning coffee.
Steve
An emergency fire extinguisher is baking soda. Never ever use flour – it’s highly flammable.
Going out to shake my extingusher. Good info.
Jennifer, Wow, glad you’re ok. Thankful for the heads up about the fire extinguisher. I have checked mine out thoroughly because of your post. LG
Hi Jen. Arriving late here, and enjoying your blog, so I’ll put you some knowledge concerning the electrical goblins for future use. I am indeed an electrician, and have persuaded the majority of systems I’ve encountered to behave and not petulantly snuff out peoples’ lives and property. (Though everyone has bad days- just kidding.) Capacitors degrade and fail mainly due to age and overvoltage- spikes, if you will. Homes are subjected to these daily, some “normally” because of frequent and regular power grid changes, others not so much, due to foul weather (lightning strikes, etc.) and other stuff you don’t need to know about. Obtaining your Mini power from a residence opens your door, so to speak, with its power quality issues, good and bad. A QUALITY surge protector, installed AT your main panel will reduce these troubles to a minimum, but NOTHING will stop a direct or near lightning strike, though this is relatively uncommon. These voltage fluctuations may result in circuit breakers tripping in some instances as well. Extreme temperatures, moisture, and vibration are your enemies too. An RV is not where the government would install nuclear fail-safe equipment, in other words. Your receptacle problem was probably due to one or more loose connections that gradually became more severe as you placed a load (heater, appliance) on the wiring- they heated, cooled, heated, repeat, which causes not so tight connections to morph into not-tight-what-so-ever connections. Loose joints take much, much longer to trip a breaker- unlike a simple short circuit- resulting in lots-o-heat which breakers are actually designed to tolerate for a time because this mimics a resistance load like a stove, microwave, coffee maker, etc. Basically, the slower a circuit heats up, the longer it takes for the breaker to trip. Oh, don’t worry about this whole “backstabbing” thing, the receptacle in the picture is a GFCI, which cannot be wired this way- it actually has a metal clamp inside that is tightened via the screw- it only appears to be The Dreaded Backstab. Occasionally though, one will insert the wire on the opposite side of the clamp such that rotating the fastener will not tighten down on the wire, leaving it up to chance as far as any worthwhile contact is concerned. Absolutely worthless under load, mostly. As far as polarity goes, ditch your current plug in tester for a model with a button on top- (GFI tester) if you plug it in to the GFCI outlet and it “trips”(the test button on the receptacle pops out) polarity is good. And….I’m spent. Hope this is helpful, thanks for your blog!
Jennifer and other Craftsmen,
Go to Jennifer’s Blog in January where she talks about “Stealth Camping”. She shows us an inverter and an extension cord. HELLO!
You Said: “Nothing else was plugged into any other outlet in my RV except bathroom night light and polarity tester.” You have no need to plug your polarity tester into a circuit unless you are testing or troubleshooting. Polarity doesn’t change except in DC power situations. Another observation is that, you said the coffee maker was plugged in to that receptacle but, in your photo the polarity tester is plugged into it. The fire started in the lower outlet where the polarity tester is plugged into. What outlet was the coffee maker plugged into? Editor’s note: Guys, don’t make a point about AC. We get it.
That inverter is just 350 watts off my batteries to keep my cell phone charged overnight.
I keep the polarity tester plugged in because I can’t remember to check polarity when I plug into a new spot. And it doubles as a night light.
The coffee pot was plugged into top outlet and that was where it appeared to be on fire. As you noted, the melted part of the outlet was at the bottom.
I assumed that the power was coming into the lower wires, which melted and burned, and the upper wires were the daisy chain link to the third outlet on this series.
Jennifer
Okay Jennifer,
Judging from your Blog, some of my posts never made it. I am concerned for your safety. Electricity kills. I have seen manufactured homes burn and it is horrific.
1. The place you plug into, we will assume hired a CERTIFIED Electrician to wire up the site. If not, and there is an electrical issue, they have a huge liability.
2.Were you on Commercial power or on the inverter when this situation occurred? The reason I ask, is the “Rig” you demonstrated with the Alligator Clips from the batteries to the inverter to the extension cord through the window in your own admission is crude. Big Problem! This situation could have been “sell-induced”. Afterall, you mention that you couldn’t remember to check polarity when you pull in to a new site. Am I making an sense?….BTW, I am just trying to help. I will talk to you like my own Daughter or Sister. Don’t create a fire trap for yourself trying to be self sufficient. Life is too valuable. Please be careful with electrical systems. They can be deadly in untrained hands.
I enjoy your Blog and want to continue reading your posts.
I have a ton of things to say but, I am biting my tongue.
Gary
I just checked my COFFEE MAKER. It draws 900 watts at 110 VAC (Volts AC [alternating current]) Based on your inverter @ 350 watts, I would just charge my cell or buy a cig lighter charger. 900 Watts divided by 110 VAC equals 8.19 Amps. Amperage =s HEAT. Heat makes FIRE?
Is this a joke? Or are you just playing with me?
Did you read that the inverter is for the cell phone? And do you think I am so stupid as to plug a coffee pot into a 350 watt inverter?
I know the wattage on EVERY appliance I use.
Jennifer
p.s. You are posting your other comments on the picture page, so that is why they don’t show up.
I suspect the problem is the power coming in to your rig, not inside.
Time for a licensed electrician! It’s really not worth playing with yourself. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
Let us know how it turns out.
Fred
Hi again. Electrical issues can be amusing in that everyone is an expert, and no one agrees. Yes, there is no substitute for a physical examination and troubleshooting- of course a couple pictures will not reveal for certain an absolute cause and repair, I did not, and will not, insult you as others may have by stating otherwise. You made it clear a tech was coming out. We don’t read your blog because you’re a moron! Electrical systems are much safer than some may lead you to believe- especially newer ones like your Mini. It’s pretty much like anything else- if you ignore a problem, you welcome increasingly more serious (and expensive) ones. Someone indicated concern over inverter power. Some inverters have built in thermal protection which is a fancy way of saying when they get overloaded the unit will shut off. Others have replaceable fuses. Many of them have built in GFI receptacles for load side power. Inverters will not sacrifice themselves and burn down your vehicle to keep an appliance running. This is a wonderful safety feature. Just make sure the cable/ extension cord is rated for the maximum wattage. I guess my point is that you need not be mortally afraid whenever you plug something in. Like airplanes, electrical systems have redundancy for your safety, as long as they are maintained. I cannot stress the importance of tight connections enough for you to benefit from these safety features though. Always look for loose connectors- especially “neutral” and grounding wires.
Wow, I know nothing of electrical functions, but I do have to say I’m very grateful that this was NOT worse! It had to be frightening when the extinguisher didn’t work either. Glad you & your little RV are ok. I hope you can get it fixed soon.
Take care –
I miss your blogging…..every going to be regular again?
make that…EVER going to be regular again?
Had the exact same thing happen to me last year.Breakers kept popping and arcing when using a coffee pot. It was the eight year old breakers starting to act up. Took one out to match perfectly for the breaker box and bought replacements at Home Depot. Now, the electricity behaves without popping the breakers at the box or the GFCI kind on the wall.
Home Depot sells illustrated books about basic home wiring. Been living in campers since 1995 and the knowledge has paid off many times over.
If you can’t find the wire gauge info that is imprinted on the wire itself then you will have to assume by the circuit breaker rating as to what gauge the wire is 15 amp #14 wire 20 amp #12 wire. Make sure when you replace the outlet that you terminate the wire by wrapping them around the screws and don’t use the quick wire holes on the back, this is know to cause this type of problem.
I hope you didn’t get hurt, was the gallery badly burnt ?
Looks like wires that worked loose. You need to replace the outlet and fire extiguisher, and double-check the wires and outlet box to see if they were damged in the fire. 14 guage wire is fine for 20 amps for short runs, the house code just assumes it will be more than 20 feet long and requires 12 guage wire.
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